Top 100 Generals

Originally posted by Majkes Originally posted by Bulldog   It Who else has gone into Russia in Winter and won?     Polish Lithuanian army in 1582 in the war against Ivan IV Scary.

Ok, forget about Rundstedt, i thought the invasion of France was planend by him in person. and i forgot to comemtn on Lettow-Vorbeck. arguably his campaign in German east-africa was brilliant but it was only a secondary theater and whom did he fought? unmotivated Indians and Portuguese colonial troops...you can keep him on the list but move him down a little.

Originally posted by rider Well, you have two byzantines. And replace one Roman with Isaak I Komnenos (maybe Corbulo)

Actually, I have 5 Byzantines already: Heraclius, Belesarius, Leo III the Isaurian, Alexius I Komnenos, and Narsus.  I failed to include all of them on my nation-by-nation list.  From what I have seen, Isaac was not that great a general.  Corbulo is actually not on the list, he is in something like 105th position.

Originally posted by Gargoyle Dear DSMyers1, WOW! What a monumental task you have in front of you. I wish you success in your endevour. Can I offer a suggestion?..... Could you please add Marcus Vipsanius AGGRIPA to your list? For obvious reasons... Your card game would simply be incomplete without him.

I'm afraid I won't be able to add Agrippa there to the list.  His accomplishments were greater aboard ship than on land; he probably was one of the great admirals of all time.  In addition I already have some 11 (!!) generals from Rome on the list.  Thanks!

Dear DSMyers1,

WOW! What a monumental task you have in front of you. I wish you success in your endevour. Can I offer a suggestion?..... Could you please add Marcus Vipsanius AGGRIPA to your list? For obvious reasons... Your card game would simply be incomplete without him.

A newer idea: maybe we should close up by the idea: take 50 nations and have one superb general and one lower but still good general, this would keep everything balanced. then later on we can put them into correct lineup.

And I had trhe idea of Isaak I Komnenos His military career was so high that enemies of Rome did not dare to attack it during his rule.

Regarding Marius, one might argue that he fought sdomewhat equally competent troops during the Social War, which, in its initial stages, was a bit less of a foregone conclusion than we often realize today. Mainly I'm just happy to see him that high on the list, as many forget him.

Okay, here are the generals on the list, along with a few that were close to making it, sorted by the nation.

Country	Top Generals	Other good generals
Macedonia	Alexander, Philip II
France	Napoleon, Turenne, de Saxe	Davout, Vauban, Conde, Villars, Massena, Lannes, Luxembourg
Mongols	Temujin, Subotai, Tamerlane	Jebe, Mukhali the Jalair
Carthage	Hannibal	Hamilcar
Prussia	Frederick the Great, von Moltke
England	Marlborough, Wellington	William Slim, Oliver Cromwell, Edward I, Richard I, James Graham, Clive, Moore
Rome	Caesar, Gaius Marius, Scipio Africanus	Sulla, Stilicho, Aurelian, Severus, Marcellus, Constantine I, Trajan, Scipio Africanus Minor, Corbulo
Sweden	Gustavus II Adophus, Charles XII
Byzantines	Belisarius, Heraclius	Leo III, Alexius I, Narses
Austria	Montecuccoli, Prince Eugene, Wallenstein	Tilly
Bohemia	Jan Zizka,	Prokop Holy
Persia	Cyrus the Great, Nadir Shah
Russia	Suvorov	Rokossovsky, Zhukov, Bagration, Vasilevsky
Ottomans	Suleiman I	Selim I
Greece	Epaminondas	Pyrrhus of Epirus
Germany	Manstein, Guderian, von Lettow-Vorbeck, Rommel	von Runstedt
Spain	Cordoba, Parma	Cortez, Pizarro, El Cid
Egypt	Thutmose III`	Ramses II
Arabs	al-Walid	Saladin
United States	Scott, Grant	Patton, Sherman, Washington, Greene
Japan	Shingen, Hideyoshi, Nobunaga
Netherlands	Maurice of Nassau
Assyria	Tiglath Pileser III
China	Qi Jiguang	Li Shi Min, Kangxi, Sun Tzu, Ban Chao
Confederates	Lee, Jackson	Forrest
Mughal	Babur
Poland	Koniedpolski	Sobieski, Chodkiewicz, Rożyński
Normandy		Guiscard, William the Conqueror
Israel		David, Joshua
Zulu		Shaka
Scotland		Robert the Bruce
India		Maurya
Hun		Attila
Franks		Charlemagne, Charles Martel
Hittites		Muwatalli II
Turkey		Ataturk
Manchu		Nurhaci

The question is: what other nations are there that should be represented on the list?  What are we missing?  For example, the Inca and Aztecs are not represented.  Another thing: it would be good to make sure that each nation's generals are ranked properly.  For example, should Patton or Grant be higher?


Edited by DSMyers1 - 22-Jul-2006 at 14:59

Okay, another collection of changes desired

Suvorov                  --         Move higher still.  I will do so.

Wellington              --         Move down.  I will do so.

Von Moltke              --         Move up.  I will do so; I forgot to do so on the second iteration of the list that I just posted.  Oops.

Gustav II Adoph      --         Move down.  Well, I'll think about it.  He's actually my favorite commander, so I'm biased.  Well, him and Turenne, that is.

Baji Rao and Maharaja Ranjit Singh     --        I will research them and see what to do with them.  The problem is, I keep getting candidates, but nobody ever says, "so-and-so should be off the list."  The hardest part is seeing who to take off.

Byzantine emperors --         Their high ranks are relics of Travis Congleton's list.  I personally have been moving them down.  He had Heraclius at 7th...  I would be happy to move them down a little more

Marius and Sulla        --         I will move Sulla much further down.  It might be helpful to develop a ranking of each nation's generals on the list to make sure the heirarchy of them stays right.  I'll post that later.

Manstein                    --         Move down.  I will NOT do so.  The Sichelschnitt plan for the conquest of France, one of the most brilliant battle plans ever, was his idea that he championed over opposition from many quarters.

Guderian                    --         Move up a little.  I'll look into it.

Epaminondas             --         Move down.  He was one of the first (maybe the first) commanders to scientifically plan a battle, instead of lining up and charging, or doing a simple ambush.  That's why he is so high.  I could move him down more.

von Rundstedt           --         Move on.  Well, he was a good, competent general, but I don't know if he is good enough to go on the list.


Comments on the top 4:  I'm done moving them around.  Good cases can be made for all of them, so since it is a simple matter of personal opinion, and this list is mine, I say--I'll leave them the way it is.

Marius                        --         Higher.  Really?  I know he reorganized the army and fought barbarians, but I don't know of a case where he really fought equally competent troops under a competent leader.  Except when he lost to Sulla.

Heraclius                    --         I really do not know much about him, except he defeated the Avar siege on Constantinople and forced back the Persians and devised the thema system of military organization and he lost the battle of Yarmuck to Khalid ibn Al-Walid.  Or at least was still emperor then; I can't remember if he was in actual command.  So he should go higher?  I can do that.  But this list is already a little Roman and Byzantine heavy.

Tamerlane is already on the list at #22

74. Stanisław Koniecpolski     You're right, he should be higher.  I'll think about dropping Gustav also.  Maybe.

"Horatio Nelson should be above him as he defeated Napoleon twice."  Highly misleading comment.  Napoleon was not the admiral.  If he was, then you could say that.  BTW, remember this list is not paying attention to naval history at all.

Originally posted by Spartan Lots of people missing on this list. US Grant for one, the first industrial general ever. ANd any military man I ever speak to always calls him the Americas best.   How about Cyrus the Great?

Good to see you here, Spartan, a veteran of lists like this.  I used your list as one of the sources.  US Grant is on at #70, Cyrus the Great is on at #21.  I wouldn't have such important people missing!!

Okay, that does it for this batch of comments.  Next batch?

Originally posted by Bulldog It shows your lack of knowledge about the great Ghenghiz if you dilute it all down just into some horsemen with bows and arrows. What about the millitary training, the tactics, the decoy's, spies, propoganda operations the planned nature of the operations, just going into Russia at Winter and being victorious is enough to put the guy at number one. Who else has gone into Russia in Winter and won?

Actually Cenghis didn't invaded Russia.
But still you can't compare Mongol invasion into Russia with Napoleon or Hitler advances.
When Mongols entered into Russ lands (Russia didn't existed in 13th century), they found Russ pretty devided and they took each duchy one by one. Well something that for example Napoleon never experienced.